Curse

Sekkira · Sep 11, 2007, 12:55 AM // 00:55

I really hope you're trolling, Arcady. That's some really shitty advice there. Unless of course, you're aiming to show him what a bad build is.

Tri · Sep 11, 2007, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Ahh this brings back memories. In a mission there's me and 5 level 15 tanks with ascalon armour. Fight one agro after another, and they always die since the monsters are hitting 80s on them. OMFG MONK J00 SUCK AT TEH HEALZOR. kkthxbai tanks

Belonah15 · Sep 11, 2007, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

I really hope you're trolling, Arcady. That's some really shitty advice there. Unless of course, you're aiming to show him what a bad build is.

Then give better advice and a better noob build. You are continously calling others bad and stupid, without ever showing anything better. Tell us what exactly is wrong, post a better build, and stop being a ignorant noob and trolling.

That skill bar shown is a reasonable build for newer players, from the available skill set they have access to. He has the basics correct - Hex & Condition Removal, and Damage Limiting. Exactly the stuff a general PvE Prot build should have. Aegis, Protective Spirit, and Divine Boon are decent skills even used in advanced skill bars.

In the end your build is about using skills that you understand. Its about your playstyle and fitting skills that support that. Its about how you read and approach situations, and use those skills appropriately in those situations. Its about whether you PUG or Hench, and how those teams are setup. Key is to learn how you play, how others play, and how to make it all stick together.

Last thing about these forums: you have 2 kinds of people. The one kind who will attempt to give constructive advice, via personal experience, or pointing towards other advisors. Then you have the other kind, the one liners, which most commonly post silly destructive comments to enforce their falsely perceived uberness. I know which of the 2 types I will take seriously.

Kali Magdalene · Sep 11, 2007, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirage Isnt Emo

As much as people also want to make it sound like a group wiping is never a monks fault, a lot of times it will be. You run shitty bars that come people give here, you're dead. The second you run 16 healing is the minute that you died.

Most of the time it's not. While I can't say with absolute certainty that I never caused a wipe on my monk, I can say that under most circumstances what caused the wipe had little to do with my monking.

On the other hand, no matter what caused a wipe, someone on the team will blame the monk.

Sekkira · Sep 11, 2007, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belonah15

Then give better advice and a better noob build. You are continously calling others bad and stupid, without ever showing anything better. Tell us what exactly is wrong, post a better build, and stop being a ignorant noob and trolling.

I'm neither being ignorant, nor a noob. I'm actually being an asshole.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belonah15

That skill bar shown is a reasonable build for newer players, from the available skill set they have access to. He has the basics correct - Hex & Condition Removal, and Damage Limiting. Exactly the stuff a general PvE Prot build should have. Aegis, Protective Spirit, and Divine Boon are decent skills even used in advanced skill bars.

No, that bar is horrible for new players. It's bad advice to suggest such a build to them. Aegis, Protective Spirit and Divine Boon are decent skills for a protection bar, I'll agree with you on that one, but not all together slapped on the one bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belonah15

Last thing about these forums: you have 2 kinds of people. The one kind who will attempt to give constructive advice, via personal experience, or pointing towards other advisors. Then you have the other kind, the one liners, which most commonly post silly destructive comments to enforce their falsely perceived uberness. I know which of the 2 types I will take seriously.

There another kind, sort of in the middle where advice is given along with insults.

Lets pick the bar apart then.

Reversal of Fortune: Great protection skill, keep it there. It nullifies damage and heals slightly for only 5 energy.

Aegis: Good skill for if the entire party is being attacked with either melee or ranged. For general purpose, it's a waste of 15 energy. Drop it.

Protective Spirit: Good if there's going to be a lot of heavy single damage attacks/skills useless if there's just going to be a lot of little attacks/degen. Drop it if you're sure of the latter, keep it just in case you're unsure.

Convert Hexes: Another high energy cost spell? 15 energy to remove hexes of one person. Most of the time it's something pointless such as Conjure Phantasm or Suffering. Complete waste, don't even consider it. Remove Hex/Holy Veil/Cure Hex/Smite Hex is a far better option.

Rebirth: Why?

Dismiss Condition: Great skill for removing conditions, assuming enchantments are flying around. Alternatives are Mend Ailment and Mend Condition, the latter of which I prefer.

Signet of Capture: This has to be the best skill ever. I bring it everywhere, even GvG. Seriously though, if you're going to bring it, take it over Rebirth.

Divine Boon: Your healing enchantment that turns you into a spike healer with Reversal of Fortune. Not a bad idea, but how often are you going to need to spike heal as a protection monk in PvE?

In reality, if leaves you down to:

Reversal of Fortune
Empty
Protective Spirit
Cure Hex/Holy Veil/Smite Hex/Remove Hex
Empty
Dismiss Condition/Mend Ailment/Mend Condition
Signet of Capture (if you reeaally insist)
Empty

To fill those, I'd put Shielding Hands or Shield of Absorption, Signet of Devotion for some no cost healing in your spare time, throw some points into Inspiration and Power Drain. The best form of protection is not allowing the damage to happen in the first place. It may be difficult to take time out to use Power Drain, but doing so makes you a better player by being aware of what's occurring on the battlefield and responding appropriately to it as opposed to merely reaction to the red bars.

No, I personally would not recommend such a build to anyone decent, but to anyone starting out, it's feasible for PvE and accessible.

-KF · Sep 12, 2007, 10:16 PM // 22:16

First off I want to say I'm glad I started this topic now, as it has aroused a lot of different thoughts and opinions on monking.

" wow some paragraphs in op would be nice as itskinda painful to read"
Point taken. I'll try to make it better. I won't however give any guarantee on superb grammer, sentence structure, or the like, I just need to make it somewhat readable, not turn it into an english paper. (insert tounge sticking out emote here)

I agree that patience isn't always an option. But when you are playing a mission that doesnt have a timer, or an event or bonus that would cause you to need to hurry, there is no reason why you can't finish the the current mob you are on, regroup then move on. This seems much smarter than engaging one group then after you kill the current 2 monsters you are working on, start on a whole seperate group of 6-7 monsters by yourself, and leaving the softer characters to try and finish off the ones you leave behind.

Granted that it would be a rather slow affair if you stopped after every mob. After a few difficult encounters, whether from poor aggro choices or just because they were hard, if everyone's goal is to complete the mission, wouldnt it be better to stop and regen rather than pressing on and risking the objective of the group? Yes it is kind of pointless to stop after every mob, but if you insist upon taking on every monster on the screen at once, expect that the lone healer might need a break.

I know that there are some of you out there that can watch every spell being cast on a party, pick priority targets and heal them instantly, stay away from damage while still healing and not getting interupted, and manage the energy you have. Along with running inbetween 2 groups and trying to heal them because they are slightly out of range of each other. And you can do this being the only monk in a party of 8 when a person in your party, who is the primary and only tank/ main damage taker, has aggroed 2 large mobs. One of which he is trying to take on himself, and has no intention of trying to self heal, and the other that the rest of the softer characters in your party are trying to survive against that he left behind.

And do it over and over again without needing to stop, you have a talent. I however am not that skilled of a player, and I get the feeling that there are quite a few of us out there who are not. So after a fierce encounter where I somehow manage to keep everyone alive, and I ping my energy because I have none left, I expect that people are going to have enough sence to wait before they keep going without a stop.

It would be one thing if it were a rare occurrence, or even maybe just on occasion. That's not the case, it has happened to me on a fairly regular basis. I know my ranting wont change any of the in-game players, or the fact that there are always going to be an abundace of those people. I'm just ranting to vent frustration for my own sake that there are in fact a lot of them, not to suggest that a global change needs to be made in the way everyone plays the game. There might not be much I can do about it, but it will still continue to frustrate me every once in a while, and ranting on a forum about it helps with the frustration, and has also started a helpful thread, which I in no way regret. (insert smiley emote here)

Obviosly the solution is not to play with these people(or be the only monk in a party of 8), but I dont really want to bail out on the rest of the party because 1 or 2 people want to try and take on the entire map of monsters at once. But losing a main tank or person who is able to take damage in the party also isnt very helpful so it puts me in a position to feel the need to rant. Oh well I guess. I'll have to get over it.

I did play through a large portion of the game with henches, but there is only so much control you have over them.The biggest problem I have is that I have no way to get an archer to pull monsters from an enormous mob, which means I have to flag them down, and attempt it myself. This becomes a long and tedius process. It really shows when you are trying to go through explorable areas where there are some staggering amount of monsters in one spot. I wish that Anet would stop putting such huge amounts of enemies in one spot. Or give me a way to command a hench to pull some, so I dont have to spend ridiculous amounts of time doing it myself, or trying to suicide it through.

Further I suppose I can post my bar and explanation of it, for judgement.

I've just barely gotten to a point in the game where I can start working on the aquistion of elite skills and having some good skills to be flexible with. Also keep in mind that the only campaign I own is prophesies. So I am limited to its skill set, and what skills I can run on my bar, as some of the better ones are limited to other campaigns.

All my points are in protection and divine, as all the skills I have are from that category, so I do get a fair bonus from divine. Currently they are both maxed but they wern't as I only just completed the second attribute point quest. There were a few spots where making it through with hench was interesting.

-reversal of fortune
-guardian
-mend condition
-glyph of lesser energy
-aegis
-protective spirit
-remove hex
-res

So the first 3 are kind of my spam spells, they are all low cast time, energy(5e), and recharge time.

Reversal stops damage and heals for a fair amount in its place, this is probably one of my favorite skills.

Guardian has a 50 percent chance to block, so by #s you are taking half the damage you would be.

Mend condition kind of feels like a free heal to me, I get to remove a condition from you, and heal you for an ok amount of health. And with the quick recharge and 5e cost I can stop a lot of bad stuff, and give a fair amount of health in a short period of time. The only drawback is I cant target myself.

In a perfect world only the tanks or people on the front lines would be taking damage and so no one else would need much damage control. However that is not the case, plenty of elementals and other soft targets like taking lots of damage. So before we run into a big mob I'll usually hit the glyph of lesser energy, cast aegis, and then protective spirit, that way our entire party has a chance to take half the damage they normally would. Which at this current moment is 11 seconds and with a sword I picked up has an added 19% enchantment time. This leaves me a good period of time where the entire party is potentially taking half the damage it would be and frees me up for a little bit. Since aegis and glyph both have the same recharge time, if its a long encounter, when they recharge I can recast them and another protective spirit. Otherwise I wait for them to recharge and cast all 3 again on the next mob.

Protectice spirit I'm not always sure about, but it usually seems that somewhere in a mission there are a few monsters or instances where someone is taking a lot more than 10% of their health worth of damage. Usually when I cast this with glyph and aegis, I'll try and put it on whoever is tanking as they are usally the first target and seemingly the most likely to take the biggest amount of damage. I also periodically cast it whenver I have some extra time and energy in a battle.

Remove hex is another one that I'm kind of on the fence about. It seems like when hexes come into play that almost the whole team has them. So because it has a longer recharge time, I sometimes question its value. I can only casually remove a hex everytime it recharges, and if everyone has a hex, and keeps constantly gettng them right after I remove them, it doesnt always seem to be that useful and somewhat pointless a lot of the time. There also doesnt seem to be anything better in the category of recharge time.

I've just recently captured shield of regeneration and this has taken the place of remove hex. I'm going to play it some and see how I like it. Also

I've rearranged the bar some to:
-reversal of fortune
-guardian
-mend condition
-protective spirit
-glyph of lesser energy
-aegis
-shield of regeneration
-res

So the same tactic as before applies where before we run into a big mob, I'll cast glyph, aegis, and then shield of regen(in place of prot spirit) onto the person I think is going to take the most damage, as it gives the +40 to armor and a massive health regen. That along with aegis is enough to keep them good for a while. Then I save protective spirit for the second tank if we have one, or whoever I think is going to take the most damage after the primary tank. After that I use the spam spells,(guardian after aegis wears off) and occasionally protective spirit if someone is taking lots of damage, to try and heal and keep people alive.

One of the hardest things I have making a decison on is what res skill I'll use. As a monk I'm expected to bring a recharging skill that will allow me to resurrect people in a pug.

To start with I dont believe in resurrecting someone in the middle of a battle. The problem is that a lot of people expect to be revived shortly after they die, in the middle of a battle. It presents a few problems:

1.They are subject to interrupt from long cast time, so not only do I risk failing to res them, but I lose that energy.

2.On top of being interrupted I leave myself open and am probably going to take damage from whatever caused the interrupt, so the res fails, I lose energy, and I take damage. With something like restore life I have to be right on top of where the person died, and spending a lot of time casting leaving me more open.

3.If a person is dead, that means there are less targets to take damage from enemies, so there is more of a chance that the remaining people left alive are going to be taking an increased amount of damage. So while I'm trying to bring 1 person back to life, I risk more of them dying.

4.Lets say that I'm in a position where I feel I'm not going to take any damage, and that I can safely revive someone, unless im using a signet, they arent going to come back with much health, and no energy to heal themself. So its up to me to try and prevent them from losing what small amount of health they have so they can retreat or get healed. If they are in a place with lots of enemies, it can be difficult to keep them alive, and I spend more resources trying to get them back alive, and not enough trying to keep everyone else alive.

Further more to this end, using something like light of dwayna in the middle of battle, just seems foolish. It uses 25e and now I have multiple targets I have to try and keep alive to reheal, with less energy to do it, all while neglecting the rest of the people taking damage. Rebirth presents the same problem, because it uses up all my energy, so that I have no way of protecting the person I've just brought back to life, even if they are on top of my position, or anything left to protect everyone else.

Instead I prefer to try and keep focus on keeping the remaining people alive, and finish the encounter, that way I can safely revive people. If I'm in a situation where I dont think the remaining people left alive can handle whats going on with me healing them, then I have no business standing around trying to bring someone back anyway, and risk getting myself and everyone else killed. It would make more sence to run and slowly revive everyone and regroup. I suppose the best solution if I'm going to be reviving someone under those circumstances would be rebirth, but I dont like that it takes up all my energy, I like having the option that if I need to use energy for something else I have that option available, so I just stick with resurrect. Only once in a while are we fighting 1 or 2 thigs that arent doing enough damage for me to not worry about resurrecting someone in the middle of a fight.

I've also been thinking of trying divine boon, but I'm not sure I like the idea of having the point away from regen and every skill costing an extra 2e everytime I cast it.

As I start to capture more elites I can try some different stuff, but I am still limited to what there is in prophesies. And I suppose if i want to change my secondary later on, I can do that as well, but I would like to make it through once with what I have. I suppose my tactics would be a little different if I were playing something more organised, but for now it is plan as best I can for the pugs.

Again thank you for all the comments, good, bad, positive and negative. *Most* of them contribute to the base of knowledge and general experience in the field of monking, and help in the forming of an opinion on the subject.

Really I enjoy playing the game and I'm trying to get a good feel for it so when I bring other players in, I can help them out so we can all enjoy it. We have been playing a few other games for a long time, and they are becoming stagnent. It is time for a change of pace and a differnt type of gameplay and I'm the one to get my feet wet first, so I can let others know the water is ok. Guild wars seems it will draw my attention for a while.

geekling · Sep 12, 2007, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by -KF

Obviosly the solution is not to play with these people(or be the only monk in a party of 8), but I dont really want to bail out on the rest of the party because 1 or 2 people want to try and take on the entire map of monsters at once. But losing a main tank or person who is able to take damage in the party also isnt very helpful so it puts me in a position to feel the need to rant. Oh well I guess. I'll have to get over it.

If one or two people want to try and take on the entire map of monsters all at once, let them.
Let them die doing it.
As the monk, especially as the lone monk, your 'job' is not to keep everyone at full health, or even alive against their wishes. Your job is to keep the team in the best condition you can. That sometimes means letting the suicidal ones die, over and over again until they figure it out.
There is nothing to be gained by running the team to the ground chasing after them. You don't need a tank in a party, things are a bit easier, perhaps, with one. But you don't need one, especially not to clear out a mob or two so you can ressurect a suicide character.

Quote:

I did play through a large portion of the game with henches, but there is only so much control you have over them.The biggest problem I have is that I have no way to get an archer to pull monsters from an enormous mob, which means I have to flag them down, and attempt it myself.

You don't need a ranger to pull, all you need is a bow with a range that is greater than aggro bubble range - like a longbow. You don't even need to meet the req for it to use it for pulling.

Quote:

To start with I dont believe in resurrecting someone in the middle of a battle. The problem is that a lot of people expect to be revived shortly after they die, in the middle of a battle. It presents a few problems:

Nope, you got it right the first time. You do not ressurect people while there are still other party members taking damage. That is not a priority for the monk. The other people in the party all have access to a ressurect skill - the rez sig for a reason. If they haven't packed it, to put it blunty, as long as you're alive that is not your problem.

Quote:

It would make more sence to run and slowly revive everyone and regroup. I suppose the best solution if I'm going to be reviving someone under those circumstances would be rebirth, but I dont like that it takes up all my energy,

Let me introduce you to the wonderful little thing called energy hiding. In its simplest form it is just simply to unequip your staff or wand+focus so the +energy you get from it aren't consumed.

So rebirth if that's what you want to use at this stage in the game. The whole teleport to your location can be quite handy in PUGs and the ummm... varied experience of the players in them.
Before you cast it, you switch to your energy hiding weapon set (for now, if you don't have any -energy weapon/offhand let that be an empty weapon set.)
Cast rebirth -> it consumes all your energy.
Switch back to your normal set. Say a +15 energy staff, and you're back on 15 energy in one keypress. - You've hidden away 15 energy that rebirth didn't consume. Since it just makes your energy go down to 0.
Also very handy when you're against certain mesmer skills, they can't steal energy you've hidden, but that don't come up very often in PvE.

lg5000 · Sep 13, 2007, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Rebirth is good in hardmode with a negative energy set. It's proven to be valuable there, though not on a monk or an ele.

Its currently annoying me though, because unless you have a complete partywhipe or you're rebirthing your tank, its ineffective due to the lack of energy the other person/hench has when they get ressed.

Sekkira · Sep 13, 2007, 01:06 AM // 01:06

As with the build you've described, for a PvE prophecies protection monk, I'd drop glyph and aegis. Not because they're bad skills, but from what you describe (and my vast experience trudging through the game over and over), they're quite useless. To be honest, you'd really want more protection against spells. Shielding hands is an option to take over one of those two slots, but there's limited skills in the protection line that you could string together in order to be useful.

It doesn't seem you need energy management without aegis, so recommending power drain is somewhat useless and makes your job unnecessarily harder (I'll still stick with learning to use PD on a monk effectively is something that'll make you a better player).

Perhaps you should spread your points out a little more into healing. Protection is an essential line here, but you really don't need to max it out unless you're bonding. It usually sits well around 9. In fact, if you don't want to go healing, do smiting. That goes down very well in conjunction with protection. Smite Hex on the Warrior surrounded by foes and hexed to the brim isn't really much of a hex removal as it is something to throw AoE damage around.

Zealots Fire will spread some damage around too when you're casting your prot spirit, guardian and reversal of fortune.

Sparks Dawnbringer · Sep 13, 2007, 11:32 AM // 11:32

It just doesn't get better. GW added a lot of missions that require speed to do the bonus or masters. The last time I went with a PUG to Dunes they ran head long into a boss group while agroing the siege worm, drained my 74 energy and yelled at me because I ran instead of dying. But even after I rebirthed them told them to slow down, and leave the worms alone, they go into the fort agro the siege worms who spend 8 minutes hitting the ghostly hero. All I could do was stand there out of range and heal the hero while they ran around slapping themselves on the back what good players they were and what a rotten monk they got stuck with.

Best advice is to find a few people you like to play with and use them and heros.

zwei2stein · Sep 13, 2007, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparks Dawnbringer

It just doesn't get better. GW added a lot of missions that require speed to do the bonus or masters. The last time I went with a PUG to Dunes they ran head long into a boss group while agroing the siege worm, drained my 74 energy and yelled at me because I ran instead of dying. But even after I rebirthed them told them to slow down, and leave the worms alone, they go into the fort agro the siege worms who spend 8 minutes hitting the ghostly hero. All I could do was stand there out of range and heal the hero while they ran around slapping themselves on the back what good players they were and what a rotten monk they got stuck with.

Best advice is to find a few people you like to play with and use them and heros.

I think that you should be aware that siege worms in dunes mission atack area around gostly hero even if there is no aggro from players at all.

Similar thing happens with that lone siege wurm that you meet near bridge before you fight mesmer boss. You cant avoid it usless you take long route.

Since you dont know basic mechanics of that mission and rather blame others, you really ARE bad monk.

Besides, only way you get from 74 energy to zero in that boss fight is if you stand in damn chaos storm spamming spells. 74 energy says radiant insignia and highenergy set, which means fail in case of radiant and double fail if you have 15/15 energy set without swap.

Vanquisher · Sep 13, 2007, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Hard resses are bad on Monks and you should not expect them to run them.

Tarkin · Sep 13, 2007, 01:15 PM // 13:15

The time i monk...
At begin i say...

If you run far away you die...
If you agroo too much you die...

Easy...

Important, some ppls are better dead... they are a waste of heal, if you see someone that die veryyyy fast and get rez and die very fast again dont heal him focus in die hard people... and dont forget to say "let him dead", before fight you can rez him... remember the time we start FOW with 8 and afther the noob warrior quits and more two uselless ppls quit the partys get better and we finish it with a good tank 2 eles and 2 monks... bad ppls are better dead...

Tips bring >cheap< >faster< >usefull< skills, man heal is a no stop crazy casting you must be efective, if you use slow cast skills ppls die while...
if you use expensive skills 4 skills and you out...

zwei2stein · Sep 13, 2007, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by -KF

...

Ok, now we estabilished that you, yourself are not bad player. In fact, you are propably better than several people here giving you advice.

I would just comment that Guardian is a bit questionable choice. Try experiemnting with Shielding hands in that spot, or signet of devotion, or some other skills (Vanquisher & co would tell you to put stuff like Gift of Health - if you have prohecies it would be dwaynas kiss). As protection monk you do job of stoping damage, but bars go down anyway and you could always use straight heal, especially when facing degen.

As for res - its up to you, in prohecies you have limited choices, and res is not a thing you should expect on monk. Rebirth is not stelar skill, but its good in parties with bad people.

Hex removal in prohecies is meh - no place really requires it. Hex effects can be either ignored or just healed up. That, of course, requires warrior not attack throught empathy and similar stuff. Dont worry about it.

Since you just aparently left desert, you should from now on meet more people with max armor, which will make your job easier. Also, there is no excuse for not being level 20 when you reach droknars forge, so you should NOT party with sub--l20 people anymore as they get penalties and take more damage from spells and physical attackers have higher critical rate against them. It also saves you trouble of partying with peopel who got ran to that part of game and are in fact inexperienced.

Also, you could demand party to ping their health. That should give you idea on who has least health and is therefore most likely target. If you meet someone with less than 400 health (mulptiple superior or major runes withou any healeth upgrades offseting it) demand him being removed from party and if it does not happen, leave yourself immediatelly.

Since you really like GW, consider adding other chapters to your account, it gives you more skills and more choices. Factions should be dirt cheap now and NF has some essentials.

Tarkin · Sep 13, 2007, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Rebirth: Why?

Rebirth is a must have to afther battle in Hard Mode and missons... but not to monks...

Quote:

Originally Posted by -KF

To start with I dont believe in resurrecting someone in the middle of a battle. The problem is that a lot of people expect to be revived shortly after they die, in the middle of a battle. It presents a few problems:

Glyph sacrifice + rez chant...

Rez order good players, monks, damage dealers...

why rez faster...

if a monk are dead all be dead...
if the damage dealer are dead, what you want? wand them to dead?
good players must stay alive everrrrrrrr man...

again i remember fow at first days the time of uselless mesmers... the time they dont run from fire storm... the time SS necros dont rise yeth, fow the big school... i in 6 man party gratsz the noobs quit... well i calling targets, i the nuker the only huge damage dealer in the party we have a mesmer 2 monks me as ele a tank and a necro... i call target in some foe and i kill it... i change target for the next one and? i get a ranger almost dead... WTF... who is killing it? the warrior? no... the necro? i dont belive... the monks wand it to dead? ... the mesmer kill it... a good player must stay alive everrrrrrrrrrrrrrr because you deserve it to him...

glyph sacrifece + rez chant... for good players...

P.S... rez not a monk job... belive you or not guys...

YunSooJin · Sep 13, 2007, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Who is KF-? And why aren't more players like him? I'd PUG more if he were the norm -.-.

TheHaxor · Sep 13, 2007, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanquisher

Hard resses are bad on Monks and you should not expect them to run them.

res is bad period, I don't plan on dieing

but in all honesty, if you are doing an elite area then bring hard res on some sort of midline caster, bring res sigs on front line

Yichi · Sep 13, 2007, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHaxor

res is bad period, I don't plan on dieing

but in all honesty, if you are doing an elite area then bring hard res on some sort of midline caster, bring res sigs on front line

He wasn't talking about on midline casters or frontline.....

and I agree. I never run a res on my monk and never will.

Oso Minar · Sep 13, 2007, 08:49 PM // 20:49

It seems like you're progressing along at quite a nice rate! You definitely seem to be coming into your own in the world of Monks, one of the harder professions (in my opinion) to first start out on.

I'm a Ritualist, but I very much enjoy healing parties in dungeons and such. My guildmates let me take the place of a Healing Monk and let me run alongside a Protection Monk to keep the party up. In that spirit, I'll just say a quick few things about my experiences in healing in general.

As was said many times before, running a party with two healers is MUCH more preferable than anything else. I will normally try to run with one Healing person, and one Protection person. That way, each person can direct their healing in appropriate ways. As I stated before, I take the place of a Healing Monk when I use Restoration Magic. That means I get to play whack-a-mole with those red bars all day long. The Protection side of things is, in my opinion, a little bit trickier than my job. You have to reasonably be able to anticipate WHERE the damage is coming from and WHO to heal BEFORE the damage actually happens.

Certainly, that Warrior or Assassin are probably gonna be the first ones to rush into a fight. A little bit of Protection before they get aggro will soften up that initial spike, letting the Healing person mop up the extra damage. After the enemies are situated, it's time to check out where the monsters are in the field. Are two Hammer-using baddies about to get to that Elementalist? Prot him up and hope he lives! The Healing person will see that damage coming up, and will be able to get the health bar where it should be. It's not *quite* your job to heal everyone up to full, your REAL job is to keep everyone taking as little damage as possible. It requires a lot of heads-up thinking and trying to figure out where damage is most likely to be going. Are you seeing a trend where that Mesmer with low health keeps getting blasted by enemy Elementalists? Maybe before you get there, throw a Shield of Regeneration on them. Protection Monks and Healing people have to work hand in hand to keep the party doin' well.

I think that a LOT of players think that healing is a one-man job, and they have to go nuts on every single pull to keep those bars as high as possible. While you have to prevent deaths, surely, you can slack a little bit. For instance, if I'm healing up a teammate and I see an enchant land on them, I know that the Prot Monk put something on him. If the enemy goes away, I won't bother with that last little sliver of health, I'll focus on where that enemy is running to. By saving that 5 energy on a heal, it might not be much, but if I can do that three times in a fight, that's a lot of energy that I can bring in to the next fight. (Similarly, I often use party-heal skills that will cover up that last sliver of health inadvertently as I'm healing something else. They're Ritualist skills, so I don't know if you know them, but they're sort of like a cheap Heal Party for me).

So, yeah. By now you've probably grown fairly comfortable with your healing bar and know where things are. If not, I suggest that be the first thing that you do. I haven't changed my standard healing bar in a while, and I know what key I need to press and (generally) when in terms of recharge. It helps a LOT to be comfortable with your bar, because it allows you the freedom to check out what's actually happening on-screen. You can see where enemies are moving, what's gonna happen, and it lets you plan accordingly.

As far as your problem with Hex Removal, I certainly feel you on that one. Ritualists don't even get a single Hex Removal spell, so I have to dip into the Monk secondary just to get one! As far as I'm concerned, I can handle the Necromancer hexes that seem to affect the whole party, giving them something like -1 or -2 HP degen. That's cool with me, and I'm not gonna waste my time and Energy getting the party un-pinkified. Rather, I'll just use my party-healing skills a little bit more to just restore the health lost, and save my energy for the people that need it. However, I bring that Hex Removal along just in case something nasty comes up, like Spiteful Spirit or Backfire or any of the other tricky things that people seem to get destroyed with. Many players (especially new ones) don't look at their negative conditions, and it's infuriating when they keep casting through Backfire. I would simply ask your party to ping the hexes they have on them, and determine for yourself which ones will take priority. For instance, if a backline caster who isn't taking damage suddenly gets hit with Ice Spikes (the hex just makes then run slowly), there's no real reason to rush to take the hex off of them. However, if a Warrior gets hit with Blurred Vision (making him miss a lot), it might be a good idea to take that hex off. As you play more, you'll be able to realize which hexes are the really nasty ones, and which ones are just a pain in the butt. Yes, it will be very annoying to have people pinging hexes at you (especially if guildies think it's funny and ping them OFTEN, rrrr, haha), but you'll learn very fast what to expect in a given area. Similarly, watch your OWN hexes, as you'll be hit with a considerable amount as well. Figure out what you want off, and go for it. You'll learn in time.

As far as Rezzing mid-combat is concerned, that's often a crapshoot. For a different character, a Signet will be all they need and they should be using it often (unless a fight's almost over). Most areas give enough Morale Boosts to make it all right. However, the Monk/Ritualist is often faced with a crummy decision as to whether they have enough time to cast their heal or not. That's sort of a game-time decision, and I'm not one to make that call on a forum. In my experience, however, I wait to see how busy I am, and if I have everything under control (spirit up, ashes in hand) I'll happily raise a person mid-fight. If not, I try to judge how vital that person is. If it's another Monk, then I'm going to try my best to get that person up. If it's someone less vital (I won't say whom for fear of making people mad...heh), I'll normally wait. That's more of a game-time thing to call. If someone dies quick and there's a huge swamp and you're falling behind on the healing.......well, then it might just be time to run. Discretion is the better part of valor.

As you get in to a solid guild (and you will, you seem to have a good eye for the game and a refreshing willingness to learn), you'll find that healing becomes MUCH easier. Tactics are such that the other, non-healing characters will be doing things to make your job easier. For instance, rather than a whole group rushing into an area, only the Warrior (with Protection spells already cast!) will pull, let all the melee enemies group up on him, and ONLY THEN will the damage dealers in the back start unloading. If the tanks do their job right, those enemies don't run anywhere, and the only person you'll have to heal will be that tank. Similarly, if the damage dealers do THEIR jobs, they won't inadvertently pull aggro away from the tank, and they will only need healing if one or two strays find their way around the tanks. Good group play is DEFINITELY the key to easy healing. For that reason, I will very rarely play with folks outside of my Alliance. It's not that I don't trust outside people, it's just that I know most of the members in my Alliance will fight properly, and it will be easier for everyone (especially in some of those new dungeons). A good group using tactics is a healer's dream, and it makes the experience so much better.

So yeah. Those are my healing perspectives from a non-Monk. From what it sounds like though, you've got a great head on your shoulders, and you should certainly try to keep improving! Sounds like you're doing great already.

dunky_g · Sep 13, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

tbh this guy seems to have more common sence than the people giving you advice.. just do your own thing and you will learn how to play the game as you go along, and if your builds end up sucking, go back, and change them, and try again